hello and welcome to altitude X The
Business Leaders podcast I am Holly
Clark product manager at Peak and
joining me today I have Martin York the
former head of supply chain Technical
and product development at Radley London
with over three decades of experience in
the fashion and Footwear industry at
leading Brands such as Asos and Puma
Martin has spent the successful career
managing complex Global Supply chains
leading product Innovation and
developing strategies for sustainable
growth Martin has most recently been the
driving force behind Radley’s Innovative
approach to sustainable Supply Chain
management and is a distinguished leader
that we’re very excited to have here
today in this episode Martin York and I
sit down to talk all things Footwear
fashion and Supply chains and we even
talk about how important it is to have
curiosity about everything you do and to
always keep learning enjoy welcome
Martin it’s so great to have you here
today on altitude X The Business Leaders
podcast it’s great to be here thank you
very much Holly to start us off how has
your confidence changed as you’ve moved
through your career and become a leader
I think the biggest thing is for me the
confidence is being able to impart
knowledge so if I’ve learned something
being able to whether it’s a whole team
or parts of a team and sit down I’ve
learned this and this is how this works
and then Having the courage to listen to
feedback and someone challenge that and
go no okay listen I’ll take that on
board let’s see if that does work and
try it because although you brought
confidence in one thing if someone else
then challenges it rationalizes it okay
let’s give it a go let’s see if that
does or doesn’t work in terms of
leadership the important part of
leadership to me is that relationship
and that trust that you build with
everyone within your internal and your
external teams because people will look
to you for decisions people will look to
you for direction and as long as you’re
clear as long as you’re directive and at
Point you won’t know the answer put your
hand up hang on a minute I just need to
think because you don’t necessarily need
to answer a question right there and
then you do need to answer it and you
need to come back unequivocably but
Having the courage to go you know what I
want it I’m just take a thread I’ll have
a cup that and then I’ll come back to
you because I haven’t got everything
looped together to be able to answer
that directly right now I like that
being courageous and admitting when you
don’t have the answer yeah why why would
you not because it’s too easy to make a
r decision and go yes do that and thenly
go uh oh the wheels are going to come
off that’s not really what we want the
wheels all need to be on and they all
need to be moving in the same direction
because if they’re not that’s problem so
take that time and a lot of people work
in some very high pressure situations
and there is a lot of expectation about
making the quick decision I mean some
instances yes you’re valid and you’re
right you can make some quick decisions
there are a lot of instances
particularly in when it comes to
creation and when it comes to
manufacturer that your decision has to
be thought through because there are a
logical amount of steps and there is are
logical steps especially when you come
to manufacturer that kind of have to be
followed and if they’re not followed
again that’s where the wheels come off
and what you spent three six months
developing because you’ve made a rash
decision and the wheels come off causes
you problems in production you get
massive reject and that’s not what you
want so when you get to that IM more
impactful decision and I use
manufacturing as example because that’s
my direct experience but to extrapolate
that across different fields of
responsibility is having that courage to
go and it’s not stepping back it’s I I
going to pause because at the minute I
just need to think about cause and
effect and then make that decision
that’s interesting because when I first
moved into a leadership role I often
felt like I had to make decisions very
quickly I think you feel almost a bit of
pressure I’m a new leader I need to make
decisions really quickly and that’s
where as you say the wheels can come off
sometimes
yeah it is and I think as I said there
are situations where you can make some
quick decisions and your instinct will
lead you to the right decision in terms
of the bigger more strategic structural
decisions that’s where I think I feel
strongly that you have to have the
courage to go hang on a second we answer
that right now I can sense there’s going
to be things wrong now I’m no Jedi but
if you sense things are going to go
wrong they probably will and again that
comes into the impostor system syndrome
that we talked about previously it’s
then looking at the Imposter and going
no you P yourself over there because I’m
just going to rationalize it work out
what’s right and then do that the
biggest tool you’ve got is your brain
and the second you tell your brain yes I
think I can well no actually I know I
can do this you’re always going to have
doubts as a human being that impostor
syndrome is going to come in but it’s
looking at the Imposter syndrome and
just saying no you sit in the corner
have a cup of tea I’m going to think
about this and this is how I think I’m
going to execute this is how I think I’m
going to build this product if I sat
down to draw on a poor and wet Sunday
afternoon I me it’s Tuesday and it’s
absolutely tipping it down here I could
just sit and draw for hours with
something that I’ve envisioned in my
head but I would never say I was a
designer just perod creative that
happens to every gift have been able to
make things I really love what you just
said there about telling yourself you
can do it like putting the Imposter
syndrome in a corner and saying actually
I can do this have you always had the
ability to do that to kind of
compartmentalize the doubt and say nope
I got this NOP sometimes I would not be
the only one in the room that would have
doubts about whether they can or can’t
but if you don’t try you don’t know so
let’s try something and if it sticks and
it works great it’s worked you thought
you’ve worked out something you’ve then
given yourself that inbuilt confidence
though you don’t know everything and
accepting that you don’t know everything
but you can do something I tried skiing
once absolutely atrocious and I’m a
pretty Co naked human but I was terrible
at skiing snowboarding I sort of got
that but I found that conflicting with
Decades of skateboarding coming off the
tow Edge and the heel Edge I was
throwing myself all over the place but
then you put me on a bike I’m a lunatic
you put me a rock face again I just
climb it It’s Different Strokes of
different folks isn’t it and I think
some stick and you work at it and you
make it work I mean for instance I
played Cricket left-handed I played
Dolph right-handed now you tell me how
my brain works to be enable me to be
able to do that it sounds like instinct
has been quite important in your career
and in your life well it has and if you
don’t trust your own Instinct I mean if
I don’t trust my own Instinct my dog
will proper tell me off by walking
around at lunchtime it was chucking it
down with the rain instead of during the
normal hour that I would do with her I
haven’t because she’d be really cross me
all day instinct tells me she’ll be
slightly peeved if I did that and I know
that’s a a jokey response but in real
life you wouldn’t necessarily want to do
like an hour walk in in the pouring rain
when you can actually take time just
look out the window and think about what
decision is you need to make that random
thought but if you give yourself the
time you’ll make better decisions I
completely agree and also in another
symbolic way the rain isn’t going to
last forever there’s going to be other
opportunities for you to do the things
you need to do when we talked last week
we talked a lot about relationships how
important they are how important they’ve
been in your career and in your life
building them how much value they can
bring to you talk to me about the role
that building relationships has had on
your career it’s the most defining pit
of anybody’s career I would say and
certainly for me building strong trusted
open relationships with your internal
teams and then your external teams at
your supply base and it’s understanding
how people work because then going back
to some of your earlier commentary it’s
then you chck your dialects and your
responses to People based on how they
like to be spoken to or managed your
relationship building process is so much
a part of that there are so many
cultural differences and gender
differences and how some people do and
instinctively don’t like to be spoken to
it’s adapting to those changes and
knowing that you’re delivering a
question or a response that will be
received War
even bad news can be delivered warly and
the relationship building process I find
immeasurably important it’s how you
build that trust it’s how you can find
the roots through to any solution that
you need to find by building really
strong relationships interesting so the
key to problem solving often can be in
the relationships that you build is that
what you’re saying partly yes I mean the
problem solving is a lot of it you’ll
probably think about it I mean I’ve
certainly thought about some of the
problems I’ve had to face in my career
but well how do I get from here to here
I need to talk to that person to that
person to that person and then go out to
the supplier and this is what I need to
do conversely there are some decisions
that go fundamentally this is absolutely
what we need to do and then brither team
I’ve made this change we have to do it
because this is the situation we’re
facing right now we you don’t know what
the outcome’s going to be immediately
but you’re making the right decision at
the right time when you’re building a
relationship with someone you can feel
when oh actually we have a bit of a
connection here you can feel the cogs
turning it feels great when you build
relationships with people yeah I’m not
going to sit here in s FL I don’t
understand people all the time because
we’re all people we’re all fundamentally
different certainly I’ve had team
members call up and this isn’t gone well
I don’t really understand what this is
or is I can’t believe you’ve done that
you have a rational conversation been
able to not necessarily justify but got
rationalize it this is my thought
process and this is why I’m taking this
action what I like you to do is that
conversely someone could be no I don’t
think that’s the right thing what we
haven’t thought about is this take that
on board as a leader and go okay I
haven’t got everything right you make a
really valid point actually I need to
make a swing change that will change
this project route because what you said
is completely valid and also Having the
courage to accept that yeah we can’t all
be right all the time we don’t know
everything we’re going to get things
wrong and that’s where having
relationships with people helps that you
can lean on other people’s expertise and
their opinions and their different ways
of looking out things as a leader we
talked about this last week but we need
to recognize as leaders that not
Everyone likes to be led in the same way
that we would like to be led how do you
kind of tailor your leadership to People
based on their needs everyone has
different needs as you grow with your
team if if you had a new team member on
board I would always say to to that new
team member give yourself 90 days to
Learners because normally in 90 days
people start getting the understanding
they start getting the language and they
start to understand and you team and
it’s about spending time with those
people to be able to bring them on board
in terms of being able to lead a team
they’ve got to have confidence in you as
much as you’ve got to have confidence in
them it works both ways it really does
to lead well you’ve got to show that you
and be confident in what you’re doing
and if you have imposs that comes into
the room it’s again pushing it to the
corner and going on a second no you go
away I’m just going to think about this
and write my notes down write notes is
invaluable whether you do it on screen
whether you do it on paper using an
actual pen however you write those notes
put your thoughts down because if you
put them down on paper and you read them
back you got hang on a second that’s
where the problem is that’s where it’s
not working that’s the missing
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peak. how do you like people to build
relationships with you building
relationships with me is it’s all about
hearing listening and trust you accept
that people have their own confidences
that people have their own skill sets if
someone hears you as well as listening
the two are very different if someone
hears you it’s very very different one
of my four managers one of the biggest
companies I worked for was immense when
it came to hearing me he would listen
but he would hear what I was saying and
not that we always agreed on everything
but we would always have a back and
forth conversation and he would have the
courage to listen to what I was saying
equally I would have the courage to
listen to what he was saying because
some people don’t they don’t close and
go no don’t everything else that’s the
decision I’ve made if you listen and you
hear what someone’s being said there is
a reason why and you have that rational
conversation you go ah I’ve got it now
what I was thinking wasn’t far off of
that but if I Chang that and I Chang
that that gets us to there that
particular person’s made a really valid
point so listening hearing and trust
those were your three what would you say
the key differences between listening
and hearing are because I think it’s
very important to call out listening and
hearing is different things I completely
agree I’d love to get your view on how
they’re different so do you listen to
the beagles or do you hear the bees now
listening is listening to the Sound
hearing is understanding the words that
are then spoken and the inference that’s
within them that’s my take on that um
that will be the key difference for me
and it’s hearing somebody’s words spoken
as opposed to just listing them so that
will be how I translate it right y Ry in
terms of how I liked to be heard it’s
for some to just listen and hear what
I’m saying because nine times out of 10
if I speak for I will have thought about
what sh want to say with no loaded gun
it’s just these are my thoughts this is
a situation this is how I think we get
out of it or this is what I think we
need to do to improve things and Having
the courage to be heard and some people
might talk and not explicitly share what
they’re really trying to communicate
with you if that makes sense yeah that
that and that can happen with your team
members and it’s trying to encourage
that open conversation with them so that
you get out what it is they’re trying to
say I’ve had it where I’ve had certain
manages and I Instinct has told me what
I need to be saying but brain then kicks
in and goes now was not the time for
that now was the time to just not say
all of that because there’s cause and
effect and you can’t say everything that
you want to say well you should be able
to you can’t and so it’s about hearing
behind the past the words sometimes and
really to the meaning of what someone is
trying to communicate what’s the biggest
sign that someone is listening but not
hearing distraction now if someone’s wot
notes fine but if they’re looking out
the window or there’s a nonchalance in
the answer and it’s not necessarily in
time with what questions or points
you’re raising you know there’s a
distance and they’re probably thinking
about something else that’s equally or
more important and it’s then
understanding that body language that
demeanor and then take yourself away and
go okay I’ll read address this later
point because now is just not the time
like when people are emailing during
meetings exactly what tests
relationships the most for you decisions
that create distrust so you present a
certain level of answers to a question
and then someone doesn’t listen to the
word you said and you said it for the
right reasons with the right validation
with the right direction and the right
strategic thinking but then it’s
overruled and then you automatically
think is my opinion not valid of course
it is my opinion is completely valid I’m
a human being I’m I’m allowed to think
for myself but you can get those
challenges and I think that’s where you
have to rise above okay we’ll work it
out that feels like it connects quite
closely to the trust listening and the
hearing so feeling like someone’s
listened to you someone’s heard you and
then you trust that they are making the
best decision off the back of that
exactly that recognizing if I think
about myself that’s happened a few times
in my career where someone’s made a
decision that’s gone left field and I
don’t mind a little bit bit of left
field that can be fun but if it’s
counted against what is a logical
decision that’s then challenging and I
accept that’s my challenge but it’s also
was that right what did I say it wasn’t
right and you do have that that’s where
imposter syndrome can come in and you
start to go hm where’s that self-doubt
come from cuz I’ve not done that but
again it’s that’s the time teaches you
how to get past that knowledge and
wisdom help you get past that and seeing
a rash decision you can put the wheels
back on because your experience teaches
you how to do it whether agree with it
or not your professionalism then goes
right front and center we’re going to
fix this and we’re going to make sure
the worlds keep going you mentioned
knowledge and wisdom there and something
that I really wanted to chat to you
about is the topic of learning where
does learning come into this is it more
of a passion to get to know me as a
person yes anybody you need to be heard
to be listen to get to know people you
have to have the courage to let your
doors down and let people in because
that’s the way people understand you
equally the way you understand other
people in terms of learning you never
stop learning never stop learning you
can learn something new any given day of
the week and the second you think you
know everything you’ve lost because
there’s always something new to learn I
mean I teach myself things quite a lot I
spend a lot of time doing things that I
love learning I just do always have done
I hated although conversely I hated
learning at school I didn’t like it it
felt contrived and loaded but now as a
freeth thinking I I use the word in
inverted commers pult um I get to learn
on my own turns and that’s immeasurably
important for me my brain’s quite a
sponge I can adapt to Le especially when
it comes to making stuff I mean bowl
over there I made that last week and 6
months ago I would have looked at that
as a lump wouldn’t gone how do I do that
well now I do it and it’s Instinct
because I’ve created myself that inbuilt
knowledge that I can do that particular
task I enjoy it I get a lot from it and
to be honest playing around with wood is
so different to what I would do as a day
job I used to make a lot of things at
home in leather but it’s always felt
like a bus’s holiday doing something
completely out of context puts other
things into context because it’s
adaptive learning do you think that’s
why you didn’t enjoy learning that much
at school when it feels a bit more
abstract and less practical it’s because
it’s applied you’re learning for a given
output whereas at school I think back
then I didn’t know what it wanted to be
I mean careers advice when I was at
school was if you were halfway smart you
got to be a builder if you’re a little
bit smarter you got to be a policeman if
you’re really smart then you got to go
into the forces well none of that had
any form of appeal for me as a 15 16
year old so I went on to further
education and found stuff that I really
was passionate about I didn’t know at 16
that by the time I would be 50 i’ had a
30-year career making shoes and bags
you’ve had such kind of specific career
really nice in Footwear in bags in
leather goods and I think I said this
last week actually I am an adult now but
I’m still not sure what I want to be
when I grow up and I think that’s true
for a lot of people when you look at
your career did you expect to be at this
point now when you started off and you
were in fashion college no I didn’t I
mean if I go back to when I was further
education College I was playing around
with clay and Glass and Metal I don’t
play with any of those products now it’s
all leather and canvas and okay person
some time bit of wood but certainly when
I was at cord wayers that was the big
trigger so you would have to do your own
sketchboard and presentation boards the
course leader would then assess and you
would go through a process of cutting
your patterns making the actual shoe
that’s where everything snapped
everything came together I worked out I
was relatively good at cutting patterns
in fashion college but it didn’t quite
Jael the second I got to cut in Footwear
patters bang that was a big boom moment
understood that when you’re springing a
pattern whether you’re deadening a
pattern whatever the construction is
well you’re working through that
methodology you knew because you made
something before what the pitfalls were
so you would understand that if I cut
the pattern this way that gets around
that Pitfall and makes a better shoe and
then you would have to physically go and
clothes make and physically make the
shoe and that was the real boom moment
when you’re physically putting something
together that you’ve actually drawn
yourself and again not saying I’m a
designer but it’s the Practical part of
being able to put something together and
I couldn’t map out how my brain goes
from physical drawing to physical made
object it just works that way I couldn’t
explain it it just work you’ve got that
instinct for it you’ve got the
combination perhaps of the kind of the
scientific and the technical and the
creative to like see the intersection
between the two yeah intersection is a
great word especially when you’re in
leading development and supply chain you
are a bit of an Arbiter for that design
ethos ultimately you’re having not just
having to produce a sample you’ve got
that to replicate that across 100 a
thousand 10,000 pieces that have all got
to look fundamentally the same what do
you have to do to be able to make sure
that all of those replicated items do
indeed look the same that nucleus that
starts and builds that bridge the
intersection across all those
disciplines helps you deliver something
far better
all of those disciplines must be so much
to learn I’m just amazed at how much
information you must had to take in and
it definitely seems learning is a
pleasure for you but there’s a pain I
think in learning too so the necessary
hard work the dedication perhaps looking
up what other people know and that kind
of inadequacy of oh these are things I
need to learn do you still feel the pain
in learning as well or is it all
pleasure now it’s not all pleasure there
is a pain in learning because there is
that bit where the human she goes oh
more I don’t want to do that and you see
the impostor St around the door and the
second I see the Imposter St around the
door it’s like no you’re not even trying
to get around that door today and that’s
my mentality most days is no you’re not
coming in this is the way we’re going to
do it we’re going to make something
awesome happened today and there’s so
much information out there you only have
to touch the internet and a plethora of
information is right it your fingertip
is it right wrong or indifferent who
really knows hardwired on my brain’s
hardwired to work it out for myself now
if I don’t know something and I need to
know how to do something I’ll ask and to
me that’s not a courageous thing that’s
an obvious thing you get lost somewhere
in a town that you just don’t know satav
is trying to then steer you into the
middle of a river you fundamentally know
that that’s not right and as a man Even
though Pride does sometimes get in the
way you stand there and you find the
nearest person and say excuse me I’m a
bit lost I’m trying to find X how do
will get there and then someone gives
you some backsliding information you’re
like that’s not right then you ask
someone else ah so that’s how I get
there so it’s not down there through the
river and whatever it’s actually there
over the hill that’s how I get where I
want to get to
asking I’ve always had with all of my
teams open door if you want to know
something just ask because I don’t
necessarily know the answer but I tell
you what if two brains are on it we’ll
probably get there quicker absolutely
people see things in different ways
don’t and have different perspectives
and that can be so valuable I have one
last question for you the same question
that I’m asking every one of my guests
on this podcast what’s the Legacy that
you’d like to leave behind personally
and professionally on both counts
personally and professionally I’m not
done yet I love it Mike drop moment
pretty
much any more you’d like to expand or is
it Mike drop moment I’ll leave that
there as it is I think for me I feel
fortunate to experience what I’ve
experienced across the last three
decades I’ve traveled a lot I’ve met
some awesomely interesting people I’ve
met some amazingly awkward people and I
think if I was to go back on my profile
and just read some of the comments that
have been left on there it’s all very
consistent which leads me to believe
that in my career I’ve been pretty
consistent and I’ve built some trusty
relationships and relationships that I
trust I think my one outake is that I
have been very fortunate I’ve learned a
lot and I still have a lot to learn and
I have the courage to learn it and
anybody else that is in a position where
they’re not sure which direction or
which decision to make put your hand up
and ask because there’s nothing wrong
with asking a question you’re totally
right and it’s sometimes really
important to just remind ourselves that
because you can feel that imposter
syndrome of what will people think if I
ask or will I look like I don’t know
enough but that’s we’re all capable of
asking and should ask yeah ask have a
conversation work it out it’s not that
difficult it’s been such a pleasure
talking to you Martin I have really
really enjoyed the last hour however
long we’ve spoken for it’s been such a
pleasure thank you so much thank you so
much for your time I really appreciate
it great talking with you and you
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