Difficult Employees, Emotional Intelligence and Motivation with Paula Browning Transcript
Holly: 00:00:03 – 00:00:24
Welcome to AltitudeX: The Business Leader’s Podcast, where we explore the extraordinary untold stories of brilliant business leaders. In each episode, we’ll sit down for candid conversations with these leaders and explore their personal and professional journeys. We’ll get amazing insights into the big moments and the ideas that made them the leaders they are today.
Holly: 00:00:25 – 00:01:42
Welcome to Altitude X, The Business Leaders Podcast. I’m Holly. I’m your host.
And joining us today, we have Paula Browning, senior manager of supply chain operations at a global manufacturing company, where she has spent nearly a decade driving operational excellence and innovation. With expertise in AI and automation, Paula has led transformative changes in her role, implementing cutting edge technologies to optimize performance whilst maintaining a strong focus on the human element.
One of her standout achievements includes developing an automated reporting suite and launching a blended training program that has streamlined operations across multiple regions.
Prior to her current role, Paula was a business operations manager, during which time she successfully led the redesign of the organization’s call center, and the infrastructure, significantly improving efficiency and customer satisfaction. With a proven track record of using data and technology to solve operational challenges, Paula’s insights into AI-driven supply chains, leadership, and customer centricity make her a highly respected leader in her field.
Welcome, Paula. Great to have you here with us, dialed in all the way from North America. Very, very exciting. How’s your day going?
Paula: 00:01:43 – 00:01:47
It’s hot, with 90 degrees, and just lovely here in practice.
Holly: 00:01:48 – 00:02:18
Very nice. Well, I’m really excited to be spending a bit of time with you today. The theme of the episode that we have together today is emotional intelligence, and in particular, emotional intelligence in leadership. So I thought whilst this is a term that’s familiar to many of us, and it might not be a term that everyone listening recognizes or uses. Could you give us your definition of emotional intelligence?
Paula: 00:02:19 – 00:03:39
Well, that is a loaded question. But no, most people don’t realize. What that is. They’re doing it, but they don’t realize it. A good manager is going to do that. And to me, what that means is understanding your people. Understanding how they like to be coached. How do they like to be recognized? How are they feeling? Get to know when. When somebody is starting to get pushed to the edge and there, you’ve just maxed them out on work, know when that person has hit that wall. You have to be able to do that. Now, you’re always going to push your people. Always. But you have to recognize when that moment is too much. And really, it’s interesting knowing who your people are, how they like to be coached, how they like to be developed and tune into their feelings. You have to understand how they are feeling at that moment. Whether it’s a good day, or a bad day. You have to know that.
Holly: 00:03:40 – 00:03:51
So it’s about understanding people, understanding their needs, understanding their expectations maybe, how they like to work in a workplace setting. So there’s quite a lot of, that covers quite a lot, right?
Paula: 00:03:52 – 00:04:40
It does. And you have to know. So many times, as a manager, I see this all the time. They come in, and they’re like, okay, team, let’s do this. But they’re not taking the time to get to know their team, how their team works together, how they like to work together. And that doesn’t work. That just cannot progress as a team if you don’t come in and get to know the team first. And just like you hire someone coming into your team, we have to make sure they fit into your team also. And take that time for them to get to know each other and grow together.
Holly: 00:04:41 – 00:05:00
So, if we take a step back for a minute, and emotional intelligence is obviously important in leadership, as you have mentioned there, and like at work. If we think about emotional intelligence more broadly, why is it something that you’re so passionate about? Because I know you’re really passionate about it. You know a lot about it. Why is it so important to you?
Paula: 00:05:01 – 00:07:58
I think it’s because I’ve seen what it does and how it changes. How you interact with people and the team dynamic overall when you put these skills into play. And they’re not; it’s not an automatic thing. You’re not born with it. You have to really work at it and you have to hone those skills to make sure you’re doing the right thing. Is it always perfect? No. We all make mistakes, but as long as you continue to push that forward and really work on those skills, I think the moment I realized, I’m gonna tell you a story, because the moment I realized about emotional intelligence. Was I hired on a new person. And he was extremely skilled, extremely skilled. And. I thought, okay, great. This is going to be a great addition to the team. We can move forward. And we had a couple meetings and… I thought, okay, we have the game plan. Here’s our structure. Here’s our project plan. And I thought we were all moving in the same direction. And then we came back. And, he went in a totally different direction than what we had discussed. I was like, okay. So I kept moving on and trying to move him in a direction that with the team was going and it was not working. It was so frustrating. I could see the teen getting frustrated. I could see him getting frustrated. And I just was not connecting. I just couldn’t understand what was happening. And I talked to a colleague of mine. And they said, you just let him go if he’s not working. And I thought I couldn’t do that. That’s not right. That’s not right. I have to give them an opportunity. And I thought, okay, maybe it’s me. Maybe I’m the problem in this situation. Maybe I’m not communicating well enough. Maybe I’m not getting through to him somehow. I have to change. And that’s when I really took it on and said, okay, I have to get to know this person on a different level. And I sat down with him, and I said, listen, this, we are not communicating. We are not moving forward. We need to work in our relationship. We need to actively work on our relationship so we are communicating and we understand what each other is saying and what our needs are. It was funny. He goes, this was like a marriage. And I said, it is. It is.
Paula: 00:08:00 – 00:08:48
No, it’s so funny. And from that day forward, it was amazing. It was a complete turnaround. We got to know each other, how each other worked. I understood now why he wasn’t understanding what I was saying and I wasn’t understanding him. And it was just amazing after that. Unfortunately, he’s moved on to bigger and better things, which is good for him. But that was the moment I realized. It’s up to me to underscore my people and how they want to communicate, be coached, developed, and really be able to move the team forward. It’s not up to them. It’s up to me to do that.
Holly: 00:08:49 – 00:08:54
There’s a lot of responsibility. That’s like the theme of responsibility then. Like it’s very important to emotional intelligence, it seems.
Paula: 00:08:55 – 00:09:26
It is. I mean, you have to take ownership of that. We always hear people, well, they’re not doing this or he or she’s not doing this. What about looking internally and say, what am I not doing that’s making this difficult, right? What can I do to improve this situation? And when you start doing that, you make a conscious effort to move forward and help others move forward with you.
Holly: 00:09:27 – 00:09:41
Before this happened, before this kind of light bulb moment, what was your perception of emotional intelligence? Was it something that you were kind of quite tuned into? Or was it something that you’d heard of before or that you talked to others about?
Paula: 00:09:42 – 00:10:01
It’s funny you say that because I’ve heard of it, right? But I thought, this is another one of those things. I’m going to have to go to a class and breathe through it. I’m not going to get anything out of it. That’s what I really thought. I just thought it was another fad that was coming through.
Holly: 00:10:02 – 00:10:09
And then you got to this point where it became a light bulb moment that actually, this could be quite important.
Paula: 00:10:10 – 00:10:52
Well, and then I thought I when I went through that situation, I’m like, is this emotional intelligence? Then, I started reading about it and following up on it. And I was like, oh, my gosh, this works. This is what it is all about. And. I went through, I read on it, books, and then I took a class in college and it was all around emotional intelligence and how to drive an organization forward, being in tune with that. And it was like. This is a real thing. It’s not something made up. It actually works.
Holly: 00:10:53 – 00:11:26
It is such an important skill. And I think there’s a misconception, perhaps, that emotional intelligence just looks at soft skills, kind of like kindness and empathy, but even responsibility. And there are other skills in there that make up an emotionally intelligent person, I think. Something interesting you said earlier was that it’s something, it’s not something you’re born with, something that you need to learn and work on. How much did you have to work on emotional intelligence? And is it something you have to continue to work on as a great leader?
Paula: 00:11:27 – 00:12:30
Every day you’re working on it. Because as you grow and as the time you’ve been with your team, the relationship evolves. And so you have to evolve with that. And like I said, no one’s perfect. We all have our good days and our bad days. And you have to understand, okay, I’m not in a great place right now, but I have to have this conversation with somebody to either start a project or push forward on a project. I need to centre myself and put myself in the right mind so I can do this. And it takes a lot. I mean, there are days where it’s like I get, I turn off that camera and shut down the computer and I just want to be left alone forever. It’s just like, just don’t talk to me. I am just, just need a moment.
Holly: 00:12:31 – 00:12:32
To recharge.
Paula: 00:12:33 – 00:12:34
Yes. It’s grimy.
Holly: 00:12:36 – 00:12:46
Totally. Do you think that this individual knows the impact that this situation between the two of you has had on what sounds like your life, not just your life as a leader?
Paula: 00:12:47 – 00:13:25
Well, that individual, he and I, we stay in contact today, and we talk about that. It’s just realizing that was the turning point. And for us as colleagues, I would say now, but. It’s something that, I’ve developed for work, but I also in my personal life notice it. And I pick up on certain things with my family if they’re feeling a certain way on how to help with that, and get them over those moments.
Holly: 00:13:26 – 00:13:35
That is amazing. So something, so it’s not just important, as we said, as a leader, but emotional intelligence in your wider life can have such a big impact.
Paula: 00:13:36 – 00:13:57
It does. And I think so many people don’t realize. And I said, I was speaking to a colleague the other day and I said, those people who come into the workplace as a leader and don’t have emotional intelligence are 1980 managers. It doesn’t work that way anymore.
Holly: 00:13:58 – 00:13:59
Specifically 1980 managers.
Paula: 00:14:03 – 00:14:04
Yes, 1980 managers.
Holly: 00:14:06 – 00:14:51
I mean, for new, there’s a new generation of people entering the workforce all the time. And lots of people who’ve recently entered the workforce will have started their careers during COVID or around the time of COVID. But for people. Who are becoming leaders for the first time? I know the first time I moved into a leadership role, it was quite daunting. You’re not entirely sure what to expect. You’ve had perhaps experience with great leaders, as I definitely had, and others might have experience with leaders that they didn’t think did a brilliant job and so they know what not to do. How difficult do you think, or how easy perhaps, how do you think new leaders should approach the challenge of moving into leadership and starting to think about these new skills that they need to develop?
Paula: 00:14:52 – 00:17:20
It’s so important. There is a self-assessment that really gives you, I just can’t think of a name right at this moment, but it helps you understand if you’re ready from an emotional intelligence side to be a leader. And I was working with a colleague the other day, and he’s looking to move into a leadership role. And I said, well, let’s do this. Let’s take this assessment and see how you fit in with this role. And, are you ready for this role? And through that, we discovered that. He didn’t realize he was doing a lot of the things and there were some areas he needed to improve upon. But now he knows what he needs to work on to develop in that way. And I think when a person, before they even get into leadership, know they want to be in leadership and have an understanding of where they are right at this moment and understand where they need to improve and work towards that, it is going to make it so much easier for them when they go into a leadership role. And, emotional intelligence is such a big part of that. And I find that. The younger the folks are, now I sound really old, the younger the folks are. They get that. They, they understand that. The older you are, it’s not so much there. Because, no. I’m older, and, we weren’t really raised that way back around who, be in tune with your emotions or that was called hippie talk back then. But now it’s part of who we are as a society. And the younger folks coming in, they’re in tune to that. So it helps them grow in that way. So they want to know their people. They want to know how they’re feeling. And give them that support emotionally. Whereas a lot of older people were never like that. And it took time to really grow and build that.
Holly: 00:17:21 – 00:17:40
That’s interesting because it’s almost contradictory to what we just talked about, which was the need to develop emotional intelligence, which is still true for everyone, I’m sure. But it’s interesting that different generations maybe need to actively try and develop this more. Or am I getting that kind of wrong?
Paula: 00:17:41 – 00:19:19
No, I really believe that. I mean, if you… Then Reach Next is a perfect example, right? And there’s many articles about this on how they like to be managed. And it’s really about getting to know the person and how they like to interact with people and be coached and developed. And I think, my generation, we weren’t really like that. We were just like, this is your job, you do it. I don’t care if you like it or not. And that was the way it was. It was a job, and that’s how you did it. But now it’s a lifestyle for people. And if you think about it, like with COVID, before COVID, you went to the office from 8 to 5 or whatever. You were there. 8, 9 hours. When COVID hit, everyone started working from home. You were on call pretty much 24-7. Your hours almost doubled that you worked because you were at home. I didn’t have to drive to work or come home from work or, so you’re at home. So that became your life. I know there was, there probably two years there where I just had to say, okay, that’s enough. I’ve really pushed it to the limit here. And you just never stop. And I think a lot of people went through that.
Holly: 00:19:20 – 00:19:39
I think you’re right. It’s interesting how… People’s connections to work and interesting you called and work a kind of a lifestyle use the word lifestyle which is really interesting I think COVID definitely had an impact on our connections to work do you think that that’s been a like a net positive or a net negative impact?
Paula: 00:19:40 – 00:21:48
It’s a double-edged sword. It really is. I mean, if you would have told me in 2018. That, if you’re going to work from home from now on and not have actual physical interaction with people every day, I would have laughed. I’d say I could never do that. Never, never. And then… once we started, working from home, there’s phases you went through. So I’m going to go on about this because I think this is kind of funny. I think everybody went through it. The first month you’re working from home, you’re like, this is fantastic. I absolutely love this. I just have to put a nice shirt on. I’m good to go. Then about in three months, you’re in three months, you’re like, okay, I really need to get away from my family. I really need to get out. This is just too much. And then after about six months, you’re like, okay, feeling a little better about that. All right. Okay. And then after a year, you’re like, I’m never going back to the office. This is the best thing ever. And you just kind of went through that phase for the first year. So I think it made us. Connect with people more. Then we probably never had. Really, because as soon as the COVID. The COVID hit, right? And we had to go home. I set up two team meetings every single week and the team would just come on, and we’d talk about how we were feeling. I mean, because this was a new thing we were all going through together, right? And we needed to talk about how we were feeling, how we were doing. Sometimes we’d talk about work; sometimes, we didn’t. And we still do that to this day to make sure we’re connected.
Holly: 00:21:49 – 00:22:18
That’s amazing. I mean, that shows just how important they were. I mean, I remember we, so I started at Peak about six months before COVID hit. I remember we had a company meeting. We still have one once a week. We had it on a Friday, and everyone sat together and said, right, COVID, this COVID is here, and we’re going to work from home for a little bit. I remember walking out of the room, laughing with a few colleagues, and saying, well, I’ll probably see you in a couple of weeks.
Paula: 00:22:08 – 00:22:09
I know. We said the same thing.
Paula: 00:22:10 – 00:22:24
It’s so funny that you said that. We said the same thing.
Holly: 00:22:25 – 00:23:24
Never ever expected it to last as long as it did. And I think I definitely felt that. I felt a little bit more isolated to begin with because you think, wow, I’m away from everyone. This is bizarre. And I can’t leave my house, and all this is happening. But then it made people, in my experience, work even harder to make time for coffee chats and to make time to eat virtual lunches. And we even had a virtual cheese and wine night at one point, which was really fun. And it made people make the effort more because you were all feeling slightly isolated. It was an interesting, it was a really bizarre and interesting time. And I wonder what impact it will have had on those who started their careers during that time. Do you think that people have a different, have different expectations from their employers or the workplace, from the careers that they’re going to have to start their careers in COVID?
Paula: 00:23:25 – 00:23:43
Absolutely. And what’s so funny is, as I talk to colleagues and, really just chatting with folks on LinkedIn and things like that. Folks who started their career during COVID. Say, I want to go back to the office.
Paula: 00:23:44 – 00:24:11
And as soon as, they had an opportunity. They went to the office because they wanted to experience what that was like. Because they had no idea. And so they expect, I think they expect to be in the office, probably like a hybrid type situation, because, of course, everyone loves their Mondays and Fridays. So but I think they expect to go into the office. They want that.
Holly: 00:24:12 – 00:24:42
That’s interesting, isn’t it? People have different expectations. I also think different connections to the work that they do, like having been through COVID and people starting their careers either before or during or after COVID, people kind of have these different connections to work. Can you tell me a little bit? And we briefly, when we met and caught up a couple of days ago, we talked a little bit about connections to work. Can you tell me a little bit about how connected you feel to your to your work that you do?
Paula: 00:24:42 – 00:26:45
I feel very connected now. You don’t always, when you’re 100% remote, you don’t always feel connected. I feel very connected because I make a conscious effort. To talk to folks in all different departments every single day. And I talk to a lot of people globally, also because the company I work for is a global company. So I’m able to talk with people all over the world. But there are times when… I feel totally disconnected. I hear somebody’s doing something. I’m like, why didn’t they tell me? I have no idea what’s happening in this company. And those are the days where I say, okay, I am setting up touch bases with every person I know. And my day is like touch bases all day long just to make sure I feel connected. And you will have those days. And it’s hard. Sometimes it’s super hard. But I really like it. The situation I’m in right now. And I went after about two years of working from home, I decided to move away from where my company was at. And I, we had lived there for 10 years. So we decided to move to Praxis. And I wasn’t sure about it. And I thought, well, I’m never going in the office again. And I thought, what do I do? But we decided to move. It was hard at first because I knew if I was there, I could go into the office, I could go see a colleague or have lunch with a colleague. And then I just really made a conscious effort to really connect with everybody all the time. Because I knew that was the only way I could make this work.
Holly: 00:26:46 – 00:27:02
I guess that stops you then feeling isolated if you’re really trying to build those connections. And so we all spend so much time working is so important. And sometimes it’s easier said than done, but to enjoy what you do and to build connections with those around you.
Paula: 00:27:03 – 00:27:55
Absolutely. And I have such great colleagues. I have to say I’m the best team ever. They are wonderful. I’m so grateful they let me be part of the team. They make a conscious effort to reach out to me every day. And we chat all day long. And my colleagues are the same way. And, we have a really, the folks I work with all over are just wonderful people. They understand that we all need to be connected in some way and share with what we’re doing and how we’re going to grow. And I think that’s awesome that I’m able to do that.
Holly: 00:27:56 – 00:28:09
That is so wonderful. I love to hear that. I also have wonderful colleagues and it makes such a difference to your life, doesn’t it? Do you ever think that connections to work and being too, do you think you can be too connected to work?
Paula: 00:28:10 – 00:28:11
Absolutely.
Holly: 00:28:12 – 00:28:14
That was a good one. That bit of a leading question, wasn’t it?
Paula: 00:28:17 – 00:29:47
Absolutely. It’s sometimes I have to re-ring it. Try to disconnect the best I can. And there are, during the holidays when I take the majority of my time off. I have to turn off my phone. I cannot answer emails. I have to totally disconnect to just recharge overall. And I think that’s so important, and it really is part of our company culture. And as a global team, the company headquarters I work for is in Sweden. And so they take six weeks off, and it’s usually in summer. And then they take a couple of weeks off in around Christmas time. And that’s encouraged to do that. So you can recharge and just get ready for what’s coming, whether it be, I’ve been a seasonal environment. So when summer comes, it’s a great summer. It’s on. And then, the holiday, we get ready for no. And so it’s taking that time before and after those times is pro-health.
Holly: 00:29:48 – 00:30:36
How do you think emotional intelligence fits in here? Because to me, it feels like to be able to take those breaks, to be able to separate your, all of our identities are made up of lots of different parts. There’s your kind of the part, the work identity, the home identity for me, there’s the sports identity because I play quite a bit of sport, and there’ll be lots of other things, lots of other people. It feels like, the more emotionally intelligent you are, the kind of kinder you can be to yourself too, and, not have any of those identities take over the other. So your value, for example, you’re not seeing your overall worth or your overall value as being your value at work or your value doing something else or your value playing sport. It feels like emotional intelligence is important for us to be able to do those kinds of things too.
Paula: 00:30:37 – 00:31:24
Absolutely, and don’t get me wrong. There’s times where. That’s all I talk about with my husband is work. And he’s like, okay, no, I don’t want to know. Let’s talk about it, we have a ranch, right? So let’s talk about the cows for a while. Or let’s, I don’t want to hear about it anymore. So you have to watch that and catch yourself or make sure you don’t do that. And sometimes. It’s super hard. It’s super, especially if something exciting is happening, right? Maybe it’s the launch of a new product or something like that. You don’t want to just. your whole life revolves around that always. And it is hard.
Holly: 00:31:25 – 00:31:34
How do you keep those things separate? How do you kind of make sure that you, all your identities are as equal as the others?
Paula: 00:31:35 – 00:31:39
I don’t think I do a great job. I’m getting serious.
Holly: 00:31:40 – 00:31:41
That’s all right. Me neither.
Paula: 00:31:42 – 00:33:20
I don’t think they do. I try, though really hard. It’s like because I go to school, I’m getting my MBA. And, we have the ranch and then work. And so I don’t have a lot of time. I have to really make an effort to spend time on every single thing. But there are two times a week I get a break. And that really helps me just disengage. And my husband’s going to laugh that I said this, but I get there every Saturday, I go and spend the day with my mother-in-law. I take her grocery shopping, and we just spend the afternoon chatting. And we go over, we talk about memories, and she throws me pictures, and she quilts. So we go look at quilts, and it’s time for me to unwind and relax, and it doesn’t matter what I have going on. I have to do that. I fight with myself sometimes, but I have to do that. And then on Sundays. My mom calls me at 3 p.m. Every Sunday, and we talk for two, sometimes three hours. It all depends on what’s going on. So those are the times when I have the break from all the madness and just relax and remember family and get back into family.
Holly: 00:33:21 – 00:33:25
So they’re your non-negotiables. They’re the things that keep you grounded almost.
Holly: 00:33:26 – 00:33:37
That sounds like a lot of things, though. You’ve got work. You’ve got the ranch. You’ve got family. You’ve got, you say you’re studying for an MBA.
Holly: 00:33:38 – 00:33:43
Amazing. That is so exciting. What made you decide to go back to school?
Paula: 00:33:44 – 00:33:44
COVID.
Holly: 00:33:45 – 00:33:45
Really? Wow.
Paula: 00:33:50 – 00:35:00
Because I never thought I would have time. And then… I was talking with our VP of human resources. She’s a wonderful lady. We were talking about careers and things like that. And she goes, you should go back to school. I think you would really enjoy it. And I’m like, I don’t know. And she’s like, you can do it. You can do it. I know you can do it. And I said, okay, I’m going to do it. I’m going to. So, at that point. I didn’t even have my associate’s degree. So 30 minutes ago or so, I was a class away from my associate’s degree, and family life happened. Right. And you don’t go back. I went back, and even though I had only one classroom at that time, I now needed 50. That had changed. So I got my associate’s degree, and then I got my bachelor’s degree, and then I decided I might as well just go for my MBA.
Holly: 00:35:01 – 00:35:02
Amazing.
Paula: 00:35:03 – 00:35:05
I’ll be done with that early next year.
Holly: 00:35:06 – 00:35:16
That is so exciting. That is amazing. How do you think that you years ago that was one class away would feel about the fact that now you’re doing an MBA?
Paula: 00:35:17 – 00:35:23
I would have said you were crazy that you’re now. That’s never gonna happen.
Holly: 00:35:24 – 00:35:28
You must be so proud of yourself, though. That is absolutely amazing.
Paula: 00:35:29 – 00:36:04
It is so rewarding. It is amazing. And I’ve learned that much over the last four years of school, and work, and grown so much. It’s been an amazing journey the last… Has it been perfect all the time? No, absolutely not. There were days when I just wanted to crawl into a corner and cry, but it was so well worth it. So well worth it.
Holly: 00:36:55 – 00:36:23
That is amazing. If you look at your career so far like, have there been any moments that you’ve been, what have been the most surprising moments where you’ve really grown? Because you mentioned growth there. And I think that’s so; the last four years definitely tested all of us. But if you look back further, what were the moments that surprised you about your growth?
Paula: 00:36:24 – 00:39:08
That’s so hard to pinpoint. I really, think being in a leadership role; I remember the first leadership role, and I never thought I would get it. And my husband, he’s just wonderful. He helps and coaches me through things and moves me to the next level. And. When I thought, I was shocked that I got, I was just thoroughly excited. And those first years of being in a manager role. He really helped me through that because I didn’t know. I was unsure. I didn’t really have a mentor. So he really coached me through all of those things. And I think that was… A huge learning experience that laid the foundation for me moving forward. I think the other real eye-opening thing was when… I had been in the customer service area for many, many years. You name it, I’ve had the role with Rimmer Kalfner. And then… When I moved over to Proprietary Chain, I thought, there’s no worry. I have no idea what is happening here. And then when I moved over to supply chain, I’m like, Well, this is, it’s the same thing. Instead of dealing with people, you’re dealing with materials, transportation and manufacturing. It’s the same thing, really. And I was able to apply all of those skills to the supply chain and then grow even further. And I think that really pushed me. Further forward and not too long ago, I was given an opportunity to stay within the customer support realm or move to supply chain. I had to really permanently move forward in supply chain. And I thought, at first I thought, Well, I could do what’s comfortable and… To me, easy. It’s something I’ve always done is customer care. Or I can really push myself and grow in supply chain. And I took the harder road because I knew that’s where I would learn the most is supply chain.
Holly: 00:39:09 – 00:32:20
That’s fascinating. So you’ve taken the harder road. You’ve taken the one where, as you say, you’re going to learn the most. How important is learning to you? Because it sounds like it’s really important.
Paula: 00:39:21 – 00:40:45
I think you always have to be learning. I think you always have to be learning and growing. And I am so lucky. And so recently we are in the middle, we’re almost at the end, of launching a new transportation management system. And I’ve been able to work with our transportation senior manager who… Just a wealth of knowledge on transportation. And I’ve learned so much from him about transportation and how things work, and different modes, and negotiating the contracts with the carrier, and things. I had no idea about any of that. It was so eye-opening. And he really broke it down. So someone who’s never been in that industry, if you will, could learn and understand what was going on. And I think he really inspired the whole project team because he taught us. How to do this and taught us what it was about and why certain things had to be a certain way. So I just think it’s so important to learn all of those different things.
Holly: 00:40:46 – 00:41:06
A hundred percent. One thing that really strikes me about you, Paula, is that you work so hard. You’ve talked about all the different roles you’ve done, learning, growing, and challenging yourself. Why do you think you have this kind of, is this like a passion? Is it a duty? Where does this connection to work come from? Is it something you’ve always had?
Paula: 00:41:07 – 00:41:07
No.
Holly: 00:41:08 – 00:41:10
I’m surprised. I thought that, I wasn’t expecting you to say that.
Paula: 00:41:16 – 00:42:34
I think it was the way I was raised. So everybody is in their early 20s. Does not have a great work ethic, no matter what people say. Most of the time, it doesn’t happen. But I think it was the way I was raised. My parents were such hard workers. My dad was a mechanic. My mom was a school bus driver. And… It was really drilled into us if you will, when you have a job. They hired you for a reason. It’s your obligation to fulfil that for the company. And I’ve always, except in my early 20s, really tried to. Go, hold up there and really live by that. And I think it also helps. When you believe in the brand, like the company I work for, the best product in the world. Absolutely love them. I believe in them. I use them every single day. And that makes a world of difference. When you believe in the brand, you’re going to work harder for the brand.
Holly: 00:42:35 – 00:42:52
That’s a really good point. It’s that kind of purpose. It brings out so much fulfillment, doesn’t it? And like, the purpose, you feel like you’re coming to work every day and you’re making a difference. How about things like company values? How important are they to you and what kind of values do you align most with?
Paula: 00:42:53 – 00:43:17
Culture is everything. Culture is absolutely everything. And I think that really brings the team together. And I will say that recently, I guess it’s been a couple of years now, and we got a new VP of operations. He is definitely the best breeder I have ever worked for.
Holly: 00:43:18 – 00:43:18
Wow.
Paula: 00:43:19 – 00:43:46
You get emotional intelligence, really brings his team together. And we work so well together. It’s amazing how well we work together. And we’re talking every day and we help each other. And we have moved mountains over the past couple of years because of that type of leadership and culture growth.
Holly: 00:43:47 – 00:44:15
That’s amazing. With a positive culture where you can bring your full self to work, it makes such a difference, doesn’t it? Particularly when you feel like you can celebrate the great things, but also be vulnerable when things aren’t going to plan. Bringing emotions to work is also something that feels like it’s quite closely tied to emotional intelligence. There’s almost a negative connotation, I think, sometimes about bringing emotions to work. I don’t know how you see that.
Paula: 00:44:18 – 00:45:14
Yes. Because you’re the perfect in there, right? And you have a lot of passion. And it’s difficult sometimes because… In certain industries, they’re, I hate to say it, but male dominated, right? And that can be difficult. And you have to be able to adapt in a lot of ways, but still bring that passion in. And it can be difficult and not everyone gets it. Not everybody gets… Not everybody understands. And you have to have to understand that and be able to make sure that passion comes down at the right times. To be able to get across what you need to get across.
Holly: 00:45:15 – 00:45:22
You mentioned there, you have to adapt. I think that’s the word you use, adapt, accommodate. What do you mean by that?
Paula: 00:45:33 – 00:46:17
I think a lot of times… And it’s not just male, female. I think it’s people’s personalities don’t adapt well to someone who’s really passionate about what they’re doing. They don’t know how to react to that. They’re just like, okay. You just need to calm down there for a minute, and they don’t know how to deal with someone like that. And you have to realize you may not be going with someone who can handle that. And so you have to adapt. Is it, some people say, you should have to do that. Well, I think you have to learn how to deal with different personalities. And that’s one piece of it is if someone can handle that type of passion.
Holly: 00:46:18 – 00:46:46
It’s all about then understanding the people around you, understanding their personalities, their needs. This is all wrapped up in emotional intelligence, being vulnerable, bringing your full self to work, but also being conscious of those around you. Do you have any, maybe challenging questions, do you have any? Have you ever experienced a leader who hasn’t been able to do that, who hasn’t maybe managed personalities particularly well, or hasn’t been particularly emotionally intelligent?
Paula: 00:46:47 – 00:48:04
Yes. I think we all are. And it can be extremely difficult. And the hard thing is, and you still, you learn things from those leaders who just do not have emotional intelligence. And what not to do sometimes. But sometimes you have to coach up is what I like to say. And where you have to sit down and have a conversation with that manager or whoever you’re reporting to and say, listen. To be able to tell you these things. I have to be able to unload. I’m not asking you to fix anything. I just need to get it out. And you need to understand that. I’ve had those situations, and they’ve gone over really well. And they knew I had one individual who thought they were supposed to fix everything every time I did that. And it’s like, no, I don’t want you to fix anything. I just want you to listen to me. And I think it helps that person grow when you do that.
Holly: 00:48:05 – 00:48:30
Definitely. It can have such an impact, can’t it? The way that a leader behaves around people and makes other people feel. Again, emotional intelligence is so important. If someone was listening and they were having a challenge with a leader who wasn’t giving them the space or helping them grow as an individual, what advice would you give based on your own experience?
Paula: 00:48:31 – 00:49:03
Sit down and talk with them. And just… do it in a way where you’re not blaming. It’s so important. We shouldn’t blame rooming the court ownership. Go through it and say, how can we work on this? I am not feeling that we’re moving in a good direction. And I really want us to do that. And state why you don’t feel that way.
Holly: 00:49:04 – 00:49:44
I’ve done a lot of reading. I read a lot of books when I started in my current organization, Peak, and done a lot of reading about starting with why there are a lot of books that say you should always start with the why behind something, and as I’ve moved through my career and as I’ve got older and dealt with more things at work and in different situations you realize that that applies to basically everything starting with why brings people on a journey helps people feel heard it helps relay messages it’s you know whether you’re talking to one person or a hundred people it’s really important so it’s interesting that you brought it up then as alike as some advice for coaching upwards as you say.
Paula: 00:49:45 – 00:50:00
And I’m not saying it’s going to work. Because there are some folks who just won’t change, but there’ll be some folks who will. And it will not hurt in any way, shape, or form by doing that.
Holly: 00:50:01 – 00:50:10
But it could have a brilliant impact like it could be something that then goes a really long way and helps you build some really great bridges.
Paula: 00:50:11 – 00:50:12
Absolutely. Yes.
Holly: 00:50:13 – 00:51:02
You’ve mentioned a few times about, you started with the story when you talked about an individual that came and had brilliant skills, worked for you, but wasn’t quite, you had to sit down and like be really clear, communicate better. And you ended up building a great relationship at work. And this person taught you all about emotional intelligence without really realizing it. You mentioned a few times that things aren’t working. Are we too quick to judge, or are we too quick to make a split-second decision about something? Do you think there’s always a need for us to give people this extra patience and extra space?
Paula: 00:51:03 – 00:51:48
I think you have to. I think that comes with time, too, as you grow in your leadership journey on how to do that. But you have to give people the benefit of the doubt. When you hire someone, it’s not. That they don’t have the skills, that’s why you hire. You know they have the skills to do that. You have to figure out how to unleash those and unlock their pachuco. And that takes time, especially if you have someone who’s a very introverted person. You have to figure out how to break through that shell first, then figure out how to, unlock those skills.
Holly: 00:51:49 – 00:52:28
How do you work out what someone needs? If they aren’t sure themselves either, because if you’re breaking through and kind of trying to understand them more, are they, an introvert or an extrovert as the examples there, or what do they respond best to? How do they like to have someone build a relationship with them? How do you get to that point with someone if they’re not as many of us starting our careers? I think I was probably the same when I started mine. Sometimes you’re not quite sure of your sense of self, what, where your skills lie, what, how you best respond to feedback, or how you are in a work setting. How do you break through and work out what people need as a leader?
Paula: 00:52:29 – 00:53:23
That is a great question. And, I truly think it’s having those conversations, but it’s reading the body language. That told you exactly how that person is feeling. When you have a conversation with a lady, you say, how’s your dog today? And someone goes, I’m so glad you talked. You know they love their dog, right? So those are the things you have to pick up on. And that’s like when I have meetings. And they’re all teams meeting. You have your camera on. You have your camera on so we can have a real conversation about what’s happening and we can learn from each other that way.
Holly: 00:53:24 – 00:53:41
It definitely feels hard to do that on Teams and on Zoom. If you’re in person with someone, if there’s someone sat here, you kind of tell how they’re sitting, how their shoulders are, how relaxed they look, or how nervous they look. It’s quite hard to do that. How do you best do that over video calls?
Paula: 00:53:42 – 00:54:45
It’s just making sure. I don’t know what it is. It’s just knowing people and getting to know people. Because that first conversation you have with someone, you’re never going to know that person. And I had a colleague once, and he’ll know who he is. He goes, you have the worst first impressions of people. And I’m like, well, thank you very much. And he’s right. I’m very optimistic on a lot of things, but he told me that. And so I always make an effort to, especially at first, to know the person, understand who they are, their background, their likes and dislikes. And we’re going to make an effort to do that so I have a better understanding of that person. And then when you grow that, we know that person, you can read the body language and understand how they’re feeling at that moment.
Holly: 00:54:46 – 00:54:57
So it’s all about understanding those different identities that we touched on earlier. What makes them tick? Who they are? Who are they outside of work? Who are they at work? How do they want to be communicated with? All of those things make a difference, right?
Paula: 00:54:58 – 00:55:34
You’re weak? Absolutely. It’s funny. A couple of years ago, I had a gentleman join my team. I’ve had a couple. But I wanted him to click through, and I got to know him. And he’s kind of a quiet person. It’s hard to get him out of his shell. I remember the first time he was getting frustrated. I could tell. And I said, well, I know what’s going to happen right at this moment. You’re frustrated. You’re going to get confused. And you’re going to totally shut down. And he looked at me. He’s like, how could we know that?
Holly: 00:55:38 – 00:54:41
That is impressive. How do you read people like that?
Paula: 00:55:42 – 00:55:54
I don’t know. I just spend the time. I think the most important is spending the time. And some of it is just, you just do, it’s hard to explain.
Holly: 00:55:55 – 00:56:16
When you were first coming into the realm of learning about and realizing that emotional intelligence was massively important in life and as a leader, how did these things come in? Did you realize you needed to work on reading people? Did you realize you needed to listen more? How do you piece all those things together?
Paula: 00:56:17 – 00:57:38
I think it’s really gradual. And, you really have to make an effort every single day on those skills. But sometimes you always relate. There are some people that just, I work with this gentleman, people love him. I mean, kids love him no matter what. We went to a conference a couple of was it last? I think it was last year. And everyone would talk to him. I mean, and he didn’t know anybody, but he would end up having these long conversations with these people. I was like, how do you do that? He just had those people skills. And he’s able to connect with people really well. And I try to do that. And it’s just picking up on how he does that. How do you wiggle your way in there, and you’re having this huge conversation and somebody you have no idea, and they love you now? So I think it’s part of who you are, and then the part of you is just wanting. I think the queen is wanting to learn around other people and really making that happen.
Holly: 00:57:39 – 00:57:50
Interesting. And you mean when this individual is talking to people, do you think people know that he really wants to understand more about them, and it’s not kind of superficial? Is that what you mean by really wanting to?
Paula: 00:57:51 – 00:58:02
Absolutely. It just amazes me. You could be at an airport. He’ll just start conversing. It’s like, how do you do that? I don’t.
Holly: 00:58:03 – 00:58:25
That’s a great skill. Because I mean, chatting to people I’m happy with. Networking is a little bit harder. If this is the silver bullet to networking, then I think you’ll make people very happy. But you can, as you just mentioned, you can definitely tell when people are genuinely really listening and hearing, whereas some people maybe are listening and just listening.
Paula: 00:58:28 – 00:59:24
The key, I think so many people forget when you’re having a conversation, is acknowledging that that person is there. Or responding to what that person said. And you may be the reader who’s getting it; someone is just downloading it on you, right? Sympathize with them. It’s like, oh my gosh, I can’t believe that happened. You’ve got to be kidding me. you have to be able to give responses to let them know you hear them. Genuine responses, not… Well, it’s rad. We got to be genuine in your response because that’s going to tell you what’s truly going on in the workplace with that person. We need to be genuine with that.
Holly: 00:59:25 – 00:59:58
If you had three skills you would recommend every leader work on to be more emotionally intelligent, what would they be? Because the way that you’ve just talked about leadership there is so interesting. It’s genuine. It’s real. It’s not cookie cutter response to when you’re having a bad day, and you want to like unload. It’s about being real and genuine. What skills can leaders work on to help them develop their emotional intelligence and like build out that part of their skill set more?
Paula: 00:59:59 – 01:00:09
If you read anything with emotional intelligence, it’s going to say listening. Listening, listening, and listening. That’s all you need to know.
Holly: 01:00:11 – 01:00:27
That’s all you need. Just listening, listening, and hearing. Do you agree that it’s mostly listening? Are there other things that are as important? Or is it really just work on listening, and that will get you a bit-
Paula: 01:00:28 – 01:01:35
Well, no. I wish that was it. No, but listening and understanding how to change your management style, whether you’re being a manager or a leader. There are certain times when being a manager comes into play, and there are certain times when a leader comes into play. For example, there’s a new strategy that comes out. You have to get your team on board with that strategy. That is where you’re a leader. And you get excited about the strategy. You get them excited about the strategy and show how it directly impacts them. And that’s the leader side of you. Then there’s the manager side of you where you’re on a project, and you need to get these three tasks done. You have to help that individual understand what those tasks exactly are and how they’re to be done. And knowing the difference.
Holly: 01:01:36 – 01:01:41
Yes. What do you see the difference between being a manager and being a leader?
Paula: 01:01:42 – 01:02:46
It’s so close, and you have to, sometimes you can’t defect which is which. Sometimes you can’t. But I think a leader is really looking at the overall picture, that 10,000-foot view, right? And really inspiring the folks around you to that goal and getting them on board with the strategy and or whatever it is, you’re doing and showing how it impacts them directly, getting them excited about it. And celebrating the small wins to create that flywheel effect that you’re going to have over time. And it continues a throne ball and recognizing that’s your job as a leader. As a manager, your job is to get the job done. And your job is to guide folks on how to get that done.
Holly: 01:02:48 – 01:04:06
I hadn’t heard of the difference or hadn’t really explicitly thought about the difference between management and leadership until I moved into my first leadership role. And it was only then that I don’t even think. I think I read about it somewhere, and suddenly it clicked that there are two discrete, very different styles of leadership. I guess you could call them leadership styles. I don’t know if they’re skill sets. I’m not sure what to bucket them in, but they’re so important to get both of them right. And I think having spoken to you today, perhaps emotional intelligence is more important for management than leadership. Leadership, if it’s taking people on a journey, typically you might think you need to be more emotionally intelligent to do that. But to determine the point at which you need to be a manager and not a leader, I think is quite difficult and requires quite a high level of emotional intelligence. And then having, if being a manager is more about getting the job done, as you say, having potentially difficult conversations or making difficult calls or really making… Impactful decisions very quickly. All of those things require quite a high level of emotional intelligence to do those things correctly. What do you think?
Paula: 01:04:07 – 01:05:53
No, I absolutely agree. I think being a manager, you have to have very high emotional intelligence to drive that too. As a leader, you’re looking more at the landscape. What’s going on in the economy? How is it impacting your business? How is it going to be a year from now? You’re looking at that, and you’re guiding the entire company moving forward. Well, it depends on your role. But if you are the president, you are going to be guiding the entire team. But that’s your job as a leader is, seeing that inspiration. You have to have emotional intelligence. But you’re not in that day-to-day managing the individuals. You’re managing the company as a whole. So you absolutely have to have emotional intelligence, but it’s not as key, I think, as a manager. I used to have, there was a president that we had. He was just absolutely amazing. And he was with us for three years before COVID and the start going into COVID. And he got it. It was amazing. He was a lawyer, so that might help why he got that. But I mean, and he got emotional intelligence who connected with every single person. He remembered your name. He did, and it was great. It was absolutely wonderful having him. And I think that just shows you have to have that to be able to connect with people and understand what’s going on within the business.
Holly: 01:05:54 – 01:06:12
A hundred percent. Do you think because they’re different skill sets, and maybe it takes a unique person to be able to do both of those things? Do you think when, when you think back to the first time you became a leader, do you think you leaned more into leadership or into management? Which do you think was, you’re better at?
Paula: 01:06:13 – 01:07:33
I don’t know. That’s a hard one. Like a really, really hard one. Because. I think… A leader is not a title. It is not a title at all. A manager is a title. And you have to know how to manage people. But a leader is not a title. You could have someone who, and this happened to me when I was an agent on the phone. We had an agent that was incredible and would rally all the folks together and get them moving in a direction. They were the leader. They didn’t have the title, but they were the leader. Because they knew how to drive the queen. To me, that’s the reader. So I try to look at it that way. And I see that with my colleagues. I like we say we all are leaders, but we’re not. And there’s usually one or two folks that are true leaders and help pull the team together and push it forward.
Holly: 01:07:34 – 01:07:36
And it’s wonderful to work around those people, isn’t it?
Paula: 01:07:37 – 01:07:37
They’re in a rush.
Holly: 01:07:38 – 01:07:49
Some people can take you on such a brilliant journey and show you that you’re capable of things that you didn’t realize you were capable of. And I think for me, that’s my favorite quality of a leader anyway.
Paula: 01:07:50 – 01:08:21
I agree. And it’s also great when you’re in meetings. And you’re there with them, and you hear what’s going on, and you know that person well enough. You know what they need, whether it’s data or process, before they even ask for it. And this is what you need. Because they’ve guided you, they’ve shown you the way, they’ve gotten to know you, and you’re able to do that for them.
Holly: 01:08:22 – 01:08:33
A hundred percent, it’s so important. Leaders are amazing. Leaders can shape our lives in so many more ways than we ever expect, I think, when we first start our careers.
Paula: 01:08:34 – 01:08:41
And I think people just have to realize it’s not a title. It’s about. Who’s there truly leading that team?
Holly: 01:08:42 – 01:09:02
This sort of nicely leads to my final question for you. I’ve loved chatting to you, Paula. It’s been so much fun. My final question is about legacy. And it can be as a leader or, personal legacy. But what legacy would you like to leave behind personally and professionally?
Paula: 01:09:03 – 01:09:49
I always look at it, being in operations for so many years. And my team knows I say this all the time. There’s no glory in it. When everyone else is successful, you’re successful. And that’s because we enable everyone else to do their jobs better. That’s what we’re here for. And I really want folks to do well. I really want to help people move forward. I want businesses to grow and keep pushing the envelope forward and evolving. And that’s what it’s truly about. That’s what I want to be able to do.
Holly: 01:09:50 – 01:09:58
Amazing. And I’m sure you will. And I’m sure you’ve already had that impact on people too throughout your career so far. Thank you so much.
Paula: 01:09:59 – 01:09:59
I hope so.
Holly: 01:10:00 – 01:10:15
I’m sure. A hundred percent. Thank you so much for your time today. It’s been wonderful to talk to you, to talk all about emotional intelligence, emotions in the workplace, being a great leader, and even to hear about your MBA and your ranch. And I look forward to hopefully speaking to you in the future as well.
Paula: 01:10:16 – 01:10:21
Well, I look forward to speaking to you in the future also and learn about the sports that you like.
Holly: 01:10:22 – 01:10:25
We can leave that for another episode. Thanks, Paula.
Paula: 01:10:26 – 01:10:26
Thank you.
Holly: 01:10:27 – 01:10:48
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